Comments

Cynthia Blue Sun Jan 20 19:43:24 2008

sounds like what I've heard the NADAC tire is like, here in the States. I have never seen one, though, as no club has them to use.

Steve Sun Jan 20 19:51:26 2008

Hi Cynthia,
The only pictures I've seen of a NADAC tire still had a rectangular metal frame supporting the tire but the key feature was the bottom of the tire was displaceable. I do believe displaceable-ness is a key to safety.
Thanks,
Steve

Cat Sun Jan 20 22:03:26 2008

I currently train with a NADAC judge who has a displaceable magnetic tire. It is lovely, unfortunately I do not know who makes it. The tire itself is made out of heavy duty foam with a waterproof fabric sleeve so even if a piece somehow fell off onto the dog, or if a dog tried to run under it and hit their head, the dog would be fine. This tire is connected to a standard tire frame -- wood, PVC, whatever the clubs have.

I just pray that there are displaceable tires in place when my youngster (now 20 weeks) begins his competition career in a couple of years. This is a long time coming. We wouldn't dream of adding any jump to the regulations that wasn't displaceable, so why don't we look at the obstacles we /already/ have and make them safer?

Rose Mon Jan 21 01:52:30 2008

Since I started in NADAC just before they introduced the displaceable tire, it does perplex me that more venues haven't implemented its usage. The dog has to execute the tire more cleanly when it's displaceable, and like someone else mentioned, the bars on all other jumps must be displaceable.

Bernadette Mon Jan 21 05:10:04 2008

Hey certainly don't copy the UK version! Our version is deadly! It is a hardplastic Life buoy and fixed into the frame AND staked down. There is no give if the dog hits it and if they do they get hurt. There is a new softer version out there but not every show uses it yet. YOu can see the new tyre here: http://adamsagility.co.uk/100_0021.JPG

Cindy Morettin Mon Jan 21 09:39:21 2008

I just have to agree that a change is needed on the design of the tire. Doesn't matter if we train the bejeebers out of the obstacle if the dog happens to have a bad takeoff, or is distracted at the last second or whatever, the tire is unforgiving.

I learned from Dana Pike that Linda Mecklenberg uses a displaceable type of tire at her own facility in Ohio.

Linda's design, as she states: "My tire is simple...I did two things, one is I used drainage pipe and simply did not tape the joint together...the joint part is at the bottom of the tire so if a dog hits it hard enough he'll just fall through it. Second, I used velcro to support it.

There's nothing fancy about the design..I believe it would be acceptable for use by any club the way it is now...

I have yet to have a dog hit my tire so I don't know for sure if it works :)

Linda"

Steve Mon Jan 21 11:18:39 2008

Bernadette,
Thanks for giving me the input. I *assumed* that the UK approach was what Cindy describes where the tire was easily displaced from the jump standards.

Cindy,
I was looking for Linda's email on this subject since she made a strong argument for change. Thanks a lot for supplying her quote and describing her idea.

As I mentioned in my article I think it is important that *both* the existing frame be removed and the tire be displaceable and/or breakable into multiple parts.

Thank you all for your comments,
Steve

anonymous Fri Jan 25 02:03:17 2008

Tires can be dangerous. Just watch the video from http://brisbeethewhite.livejournal.com/ posted on Jan. 21st, 2008 at 8:17 PM

(or direct link to the video http://www.brisbeethewhite.com/videos/londontirecrash.wmv)

Fiona Fri Jan 25 14:05:00 2008

Just want to add to Bernadette's comments about UK tyres. The lifebuoy tyre is on its way out and across the Midlands, North and Scotland has been replaced by larger aperture soft tyres. The South is also finally following suit.

At the UK Kennel Club's agility council meeting in early January, they considered a proposal to change our rules on the tyre to effectively make the lifebuoy tyre illegal. The minutes are not yet available, and many of us are hoping the rule change will have gone through.

Many judges over here are no longer putting the tyre obstacle in their courses, so it may eventually go the way of the crossover, the water jump and the table.

Fiona Fri Jan 25 14:07:14 2008

p.s. the Adams tyre might in theory displace from the frame if hit hard enough as it is held on via broad velcro ties. However it isn't designed to displace easily.

Sanne Ammitzbøll Mon Jan 28 01:28:51 2008

Hey. I´m from Denmark and for 2 years the rules in denmark has prescribed that the tire must split in half. We have for 3 years offered to take this tires with us too the world championship, and this year it could have saved a Svedish dog from injure. You can see a picture of the tires here http://www.poweragility.dk/npahjul/eindexnpahjul.html
Hope you understand what I´m writing !!!

Sanne Ammitzbøll Mon Jan 28 01:36:29 2008

Just a ekstra comment. As fare as I know we have not any dogs who have bee injured in one of those tires for 3 years

Carol Sun Feb 3 16:37:45 2008

Haven't been on here for a while and have just seen this. There is a proposal in the UK at the moment to outlaw the lifebouy tyre, so that the only legal one will be one like the Adams soft tyre. I can't see anyone opposing this, and it won't happen a moment too soon.

Sonya Tue Feb 5 12:40:27 2008

I would love to see the tire change! One with the bottom disengaging if the dog knocks it, too many injuries or chances of injury, it's a game of fun for your dog, I say we need to ask for a different tire!

Pam Mon Feb 18 18:01:51 2008

I have an absolutely shocking picture of my bc just before she hit the tire at a recent trial. Apparently she took off too soon because her hind end is higher than her front legs, and one leg is outstretched and will hit the tire. Luckily the tire and frame, especially the frame, gave, and she was not injured, although all we could see for a few seconds was a cloud of dust, PVC, and a black/white BC on the ground. The frame was PVC. It had been nailed into the packed dirt at the trial. Lot of trouble for the club to repair -- one thing that also needs to be considered.

Kevin Thu Mar 20 22:55:34 2008

I just had a scary tire crash this weekend.

Happened to get a video. did some editing
(zoom/slo mo/frame grab) so you can see what
happened. PVC tire wasn't staked in, and note
it's legs came apart, and the bottom of the tire
seemed loose. All of that would seem to violate tire
construction rules, but in this case, it turned out
to be a good thing. One could thing of the entire
obstacle being displaceable.

I'm not sure what a good solution is, but I know
this was scary. (dog fine).

I think looking close, she may have tried to duck her head under the tire when she saw she was going to crash. The looseness of the tire and obstacle may have contributed to her head sliding above the tire, but it's unclear.

Maybe also standardize on the tire color and striping
if any. I see black tires, white tires, white with red stripes.

I wouldn't dismiss the argument that I have a dog specific problem though.

Also, the length of the legs underneath, sticking towards the dog's path? Dogs may use them as a reference point?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHz28ReFay8

Steve Fri Mar 21 10:05:25 2008

Thank you all for adding to the discussion.

Kevin,
That is a nasty fall! I'm glad she is OK and I agree that the lack of staking in this case worked out for the best for your dog. You dog took off so early for the tire, I agree she may be cueing her take off point on something other than the tire itself.

I can't find the link but I seem to recall seeing a picture of Linda Mecklenburg using a tire supported between two jump uprights as a training tool for young dogs to focus on the ring of the tire instead of all the other "stuff" around the tire on a standard tire. I know Susan Salo had a recent article in Clean Run about training dogs on jumps with and without ground bars so the dog learns to judge their take off point based on the actual bar and not the ground bar. Suzanne, Linda and Susan's jumping programs all try to give the dog skills to find their take off point. Our Milo is terrible at choosing his take off point, especially when he is in a hurry to catch up to me or on a long lead out...

As far as tire designs go Linda sent me this link that shows a European tire that separates about the middle and if you continue watching the run you'll see someone putting it back together: http://www.eifertanna.com/dornbirn2008_neva3.wmv (slow download). Looks like a good design to me. I like the split about the vertical better than splitting about the horizontal.

Thanks everyone!

Kevin Fri Mar 21 10:59:53 2008

the vertical split is interesting.
I've made a tire from 4" pvc pipe, with a 1/2" plywood
donut core (donut cut at one point to slide the pipe on).

I could imagine two "C" shaped pieces of plywood inside
4" pipe to create a split vertical. Magnets might work
well to have consistent connect/breakaway force at top
and bottom.

But as you noted there are other things dogs do too
that are bad.

Dogs knock over jump standards. They survive because
they're usually lightweight. I think the metal
tire frames are nasty because they can come down on a
dogs back/neck like a guillotine. Standardizing on the
attach method would be good. I think bungies should
be outlawed because the oscillation (in a problem) causes
more issues. I think chains top and bottom, pvc frame,
no staking, glued joints on pvc everywhere, and more standardized dimensions would be good. The split vertical
tire would need 4 attach points. A plywood core/corrugated pvc version wouldn't be that expensive to make. The key is standardizing on the breakaway connection. Most people wouldn't do a good job on that with homemade versions.

we may be stuck with what we have just because of the difficulties in homemade construction.

Kris Tue Apr 8 22:10:52 2008

I competed in the AAC Nationals in Canada 2 years ago and they required the break away tire for all competitions....it was FANTASTIC! It was basically 2 pieces that were held together with magnets and if the dog knocked it, the bottom part simply fell to the ground much like a bar of a jump. It was very simply to replace. The tire itself was made of styrofoam with magnets holding it together. Even heavy set frames can be knocked over as I found out in training one day with the heaviest frame I'd ever seen.....it was the first and hopefully last time my dog had an incident with a tire. I still don't know how the frame missed hitting my dog's back, which would have ended his career....so I'm all for the lighter frames. The website for this year's AAC Nationals which should offer a breakaway tire is http://www.chute4qzagility.ca/

Jenn Wed Apr 9 02:06:28 2008

Hey Steve,

Do you know of anywhere that sells a tire where the bottom portion(s) fall(s) off when hit? It sounds much like what the AAC used 2 years ago (as mentioned above), but I've yet to be able to find anyone that makes it! I know there is one made out of solid PVC, but I was hoping to find one with flexible pipe or foam. Thanks for any ideas you (or others) have! :)

Kris Wed Apr 9 13:56:40 2008

Here is a website that currently offers the break away tire. I believe the cost is $ 250, but you'll need to contact them for an update (as that's the price I had from a few months back) http://www.dog-equipment.com/tirejump.html Videos of this tire can be found on youtube by searching displaceable tire.

chute4qzagility will be offering a breakaway tire this summer.